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Bad Manners and Good Gossip

« More AIDS Fraud! | Main | An Unconventional AIDS Patient »

July 06, 2006


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I don't think these researchers are ever going to wake up and smell the coffee. They don't want to.

It looks like they're moving the goalposts again, changing the language.

One of the defining aspects of LTNPs is that they don't take "AIDS" drugs. Well, that's obviously a thorn in the side for the HIV promoters out there, and needs to change. There were hints of renaming them "long term slow progressors". That way, the HIV protagonists could still have their paradigm, and take away any shred of hope from those formerly labeled LTNPs.

Now they're calling them "elite controllers"? Why not? Let's just go with it.

As an "elite controller" (bye-bye LTNPs!), there are completely new avenues of study. Unlike the LTNPs, we can forget about the "AIDS drug" problem and look at this from a fresh perspective. Aaah, doesn't changing the language feel great?!

Got to hand it to these folks, when the going gets tough, they just change the language. And when you bring up the issue, they state that that's old news, and they're learning so much more about "HIV" now.



True. But, if HIV+ healthy folks start to feel more comfortable coming out from the shadows -- and if it turns out the common denominator is that they didn't take any of the AZT -- with "dreadful side effects" or ridiculous "cocktails" -- then I think good things will happen.




Hey Hank:

I heard of a guy who never graduated college (a long term non progressor for sure) and who became the CEO of a company you may have heard of -- MICROSOFT! Not HIV related but a good analogy.


noreen martin

Let me wave the right-on flag! This is the common denominator, no harmful drugs and it doesn't matter what they us, we will continue on to be happy as long as we "believe" that we will. After all, its mainly in one's head and attitude.


I appreciate your optimism.

I just think this another "AIDS" boondoggle. A way to get rid of the LTNP problem, change the language and get support (money) into another dead-end of "AIDS" research.

If good things come of it, believe me, I'll be celebrating. Until then, cynicism prevails.



Well, you certainly have earned the right to be cynical of the various pronounciementos from the scientific morons of the AIDS establishment.

But, I'm startin' to feel a change in the cultural wind patterns.

Hey, mebbe, the times they are a-changin':)



Hmmm. Much food for thought, Hank.

The article says that these "elitists" comprise only 1% of HIV+ folks.

Any support for this data? Any refutation?

BTW, I already miss Mongo, but Groucho is much softer, you old goat.


Harold Lloyd - Thespian

An article like this is good progress. It is going to be interesting to see how these folks "spin" this in favor of new grants and new funding.

You're right, Hank, we need more "elite controllers" to come out of the closet so more research can be done... to show the true trend as we know it!

In God we trust, all others must bring data.


Beware!! Cynicism alert!!

upon further reflection, I may share in your optimism, but for different reasons.

Would this happen to be the same LA Times that printed the article "A Mother's Denial, A Daughter's Death"?

How's that investigation of Maggiore and Scovill in regard to EJ's death going? Is Christine Maggiore an "elite controller" with a "defective virus"? i.e., then EJ might not have died of "AIDS"?

Call me a closet optimist, but I honestly believe Maggiore and Scovill are going to prevail on this one...AND...that this could be a way for the LA Times to save face on this fiasco.

Sheer speculation! I know! But as we both know, this thing is extremely political, and it seems almost anything is within the realm of possibilities.



1% is probably the nose of the camel. We know that 13,000 people died last year from AIDS, while 1 million have HIV. So, clearly, lotta folks are survivin'. The question is, Is it because of the prescription drug or is it because they don't take the drugs?

Harold Lloyd Thespian,

I like that. "In God we trust, all others must bring data." I might have to "borrow" that:)


Optimism for ANY reason is generally a good thing.



Here's an interesting discussion from S.Africa's Mail and Guardian online:

Note (in the discussion and reposted below) the story of David Patient, HIV pos forever, living wonderfully, spiritually, in full embrace of life, with no intention of dying.

(credit to "starsludge" who posted this at the M&G online)

“David Patient is no ordinary man. Diagnosed HIV-positive 21 years ago, the tanned South African has the confidence of a man who knows that every day he defies medical odds just by being alive. He doesn't take anti-retroviral drugs, and puts his longevity down to a tough dietary regime and an unbending will to live.”
South African defies AIDS through diet, will to live, 27 June 2004

“Hi there. David Patient here from SA.

John, send me your mailing address and I'll get a copy of our book, Positive Health, 4th edition, out to you. There are currently 12 million copies of the book in circulation in 16 languages, including Arabic.

In the book, which is purely based in African realities and part of what we do is explore are all the foods a person needs to maintain a healthy immune system. It is based on our extensive research and years of field work in places like SA, Kenya, Eritrea, Mozambique, Swaziland, Lesotho and Tanzania and we look at local foods and how to prepare them and even grow them more effectively.”

First Person An article by David Patient, South Africa

Note the story of Tine van der Maas - South African nurse who says: No one need die of immune deficiency

“Everything about Tine van der Maas is larger than life. A few moments in her towering 6ft 2in no-nonsense straight-talking presence is a tonic - proof that she practises what she preaches: laughter is the best medicine. How she can still be laughing given what she is being subjected to is a triumph of the human spirit.

She is a trained nurse, but no longer registered, and a qualified midwife with 22 years of experience working with the poorest of poor South Africans. Tine and her "best friend," her mother, Nelly, and associates of Health Education Services (HES), have travelled across the country and neighbouring states spreading the message - no one need die of immune deficiency. That's her heresy.

Using time-honoured ingredients from nature's abundance and applying fundamentals of good nutrition, Tine & Nelly have evidence from the about 40,000 patients whose lives they have touched that their treatment and maintenance programme works. Even the extremely ill invariably have been pulled back from death, provided the programme in all its deceptively simple components is applied with due diligence.”

AIDS does not mean death - 45 hours on film proves it

And a heap of other stories.
Surviving and Thriving

AIDS: Long-Term Survivors


Natural Resistance to HIV/AIDS

Non-progression of HIV infection 20 years after diagnosis

Ed Sherbayn


Lotta good links and stuff there, LS



Here's more on David Patient's moving story:

*_Note the compulsion to self-destruction and suicide, that once faced, gave way to a very different way of life..._*

David attributes his ongoing health to working on all levels ­ physical, emotional and spiritual. ‘Firstly, understand the disease and immune function, what you are up against and have as much knowledge, if not more, than the so-called experts. *Secondly, do the work. I had many unresolved issues in my life and I took each one, head on, and confronted them, my dragons if you will.* Most people are dealing with a complexity of issues before they are diagnosed and their diagnosis exacerbates these pre-existing conditions. I started taking a long hard look at who I had become and then set about doing the work to resolve these issues, one at a time. Am I “all better” now? No, not by a long shot, but I certainly have my shit together more than most people and I am still working my issues and not avoiding them.’

*David's daily programme is not exceptional: exercise, good nutrition and adequate sleep. ‘My philosophy is: Empty what is full; fill what is empty and when I have an itch, I scratch. I am just an ordinary person who has been very blessed with an extraordinary life.’* David was diagnosed on his 22nd birthday on March 13 1983, before HIV had been identified, and told he had this new disease and probably had no more than 6 months to live.

*His initial response was relief, strange as that may seem. ‘I had been highly self-destructive for many years, having attempted suicide nine times, so my initial response was that I was finally going to die and all those people who had been ugly to me in my growing up years would now be sorry*,’ he says. ‘My response was one of revenge, not directed at the person who infected me, but at all the teachers, students, family and friends who all had their labels for me, like hyperactive and stupid, and who said I would never amount to anything in my life.’ This soon faded and within a month of his diagnosis, several friends died. ‘The reality then kicked in that this death was not a fun one and nor was it “pretty”, so my images of me dying a “lovely young corpse” were shot to hell.’

*He decided to kill himself as he didn't want to suffer. And this is where, in his own words, things became strange*. ‘I was living in Las Vegas at the time and I went in quest of a cliff. Just as I was preparing to jump I heard a voice say “you're not going to die” which I promptly ignored. It happened again, only this time it was a bit louder. I tried to ignore it again and again it said, “You're not going to die”. I stepped back from the edge and just started crying. Was it God? Was I having a psychotic breakdown? Had I done one too many acid trips?’

Whatever happened that day, David left the mountain having made the choice to give living a chance. *He decided he would spend the next 20 years finding ways to stay healthy. ’My logic was that in any holocaust, war, plague or pandemic, there were always one or two people who lived to tell the story ­ and why couldn't one of those people be me?* Somebody had to stay alive to tell the story for all those who had died with their song still in them, unsung.’

*That was a powerful moment for David and today he says he's grateful to HIV for entering his life. ‘It has been by far my greatest teacher and I would not be the person I am today had it not been for AIDS.* HIV has allowed my authentic self to emerge. I am very comfortable with who I am, what I stand for and the course of my life.’ Over the next few years he became an activist, doing his best to put AIDS on the agenda. Then he and his partner Neil Orr, a research psychologist, compiled a booklet, Positive Living, a resource booklet for HIV-positive people, containing thoroughly researched (and highly cost-effective) physical, nutritional, and mental methods for enhancing health and longevity. There’s a wealth of information in it and the booklet is in its second printing.

*David has left the world of activism behind. ‘I just do what I do and don't really get too caught up in all the politics around HIV/AIDS. Twenty years of being around all HIV's politics have hardened me somewhat and I have little, if any patience left. We're coming from “Lead us, follow us or get the hell out of our way”.*


*Nutrition is only one component of a much larger process, which includes empowerment (individual and group), the basics of HIV/AIDS, basic immune function, health motivations, behaviour change, nutrition where there are no resources, sustainable farming, the basics of psycho-neuro-immunology*, basic counselling skills, basic therapy skills, stigma and discrimination, assessing needs, caregiver issues, orphan care, mobilising one’s community into action, AIDS activism, home-based care where there are no resources, working with the dying, grief therapy and multiple losses.

Dean Esmay

I don't know which is America's worst newspaper, the Los Angeles Times or the New York Time, but both have been exposed for shoddy journalism so many times in the last few years that nothing surprises or excites me anymore.

Oh now they admit that there are people who test positive for the HIV antibody, but don't get AIDS, they're rare but they exist? And what's the exact evidence that they are so rare? And so are Christine and Robin owed an apology or not? I notice that according to the LAT, the police were "poised to act" against Scovill & Maggiore--over a year ago, and so far zilch, because there's no evidence whatsoever that they were bad parents and damned little that the girl died of AIDS.

Still I'm with Hank: I sense a shift in the winds. Part of it is being brought on by the internet, too. The elite gatekeepers of information in the mainstream media can no longer entirely control the flow of information. Plus over 20 years of failed predictions and name-calling have made the establishment position look weaker and weaker.

Stephen Perkins

WARNING: I bought into the HEAL, AIDS is bogue crap too for years, denied all the meds, trying everything other idea, snake venom included. Well, folks, it nearly killed me (1999)! I was in a partial coma for a couple months, I think, no one really knows. I wasn't even taking Bactrim (the preventive for pneumocystis carnii pneumonia)! I got a little depressed and WHAMO, blotto, they were planning my memorial until the meds kicked in and I began to slowly resurface.

So, my advice is to be very judicious about being myopic and stubborn. The meds are working great for me. Hell, I even compete in physique competition now (and win medals).



Thank you very much for your articulate statement of a legitimate counter position.

It is also remarkably well timed, and I wonder if it was influenced by today's "New on the Dissident Net" post, because Jeff Kiefer's new site seems to be the perfect place to have a real discussion of your concerns and points, and I cannot do better than to advise you to visit it.

I will not, however, allow this discussion to continue here, as I do not believe it is the best place (now) to give visibility and meaning to your excellent and honest comment.

I hope that you, and others who may wish to engage you, will understand and appreciate that this is the furthest thing from "censorship".

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