Comments on Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!TypePad2006-09-01T05:52:10ZOtishttps://barnesworld.blogs.com/barnes_world/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://barnesworld.blogs.com/barnes_world/2006/08/celia_farber_on/comments/atom.xml/Stephen Davis commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e55077721e88342006-09-08T18:10:57Z2008-02-22T08:51:55ZStephen Davishttp://www.theaidstrial.comThere is now a highly condensed (28 minutes) version of the Joey Reynolds Show available for listening at www.theAIDStrial.com/recinter.htm.<p>There is now a highly condensed (28 minutes) version of the Joey Reynolds Show available for listening at www.theAIDStrial.com/recinter.htm.</p>Claus commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e55063574888332006-09-08T04:56:14Z2008-02-22T08:49:09ZClausBut let's have a seat and one more 'fadoel',then, and let the world above ground mind its own mindless business...<p>But let's have a seat and one more 'fadoel',then, and let the world above ground mind its own mindless business a while longer, so I can discover what it is that fascinates you so about Denmark. For to me, the native and the traveller, the rest of 'Norden', Sweden, Norway, Finland is so much wilder and grander in its bones than the little piece of manicured farmland I grew up on. </p>Claus commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550776bf188342006-09-08T04:38:59Z2008-02-22T08:49:11ZClausIt's not clear to me what you mean. I haven't been there a long time myself... If you mean a...<p>It's not clear to me what you mean. I haven't been there a long time myself... If you mean a seam between all the earth's major oceans, 5 or however many there are of them, near a Danish city, I profess ignorance. I doubt very much one can extend for instance the Indian Ocean all the way up or down, or around to<br />
Scandinavia </p>Celia I. Farber commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e55077711e88342006-09-08T03:38:02Z2008-02-22T08:51:30ZCelia I. FarberI can't really get too worked up about Hamlet, though I did like that angle my beloved professor John Carroll...<p>I can't really get too worked up about Hamlet, though I did like that angle my beloved professor John Carroll took staunchly and spittingly ANTI-AMBIVALENCE, also anti-the notion that Hamlet was young(ish) and of course the notion that the damn thing had anything to do with Denmark, other than a way to outfox the censors of Elizabethan England. </p>
<p>Claus: I could talk about Denmark forever. Is this like...a table at the back of the joint that they don't really need? In which case, we can have our little underground salon, order another round and keep blowing smoke rings about Denmark and our various obsessions while the fires rage outside. </p>
<p>I have to ask you about The Point (pa engelska) where the the earth's oceans form a seam. Fredrikshavn...was it...and then...I can't remember. Is it true or were they pulling my American Leg? </p>Claus commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550635c3888332006-09-06T15:54:27Z2008-02-22T08:51:45ZClaus Ms Farber, Hamlet is most certainly mis-read as 'ambivalent', which I hope my quotation went to show. The ambivalence comes...<p>Ms Farber,<br />
<br />
Hamlet is most certainly mis-read as 'ambivalent', which I hope my quotation went to show. The ambivalence comes from stuffy lecturers (yours obviously not included in that legion) who know no better than to read their own limited self-understanding into literature from other epochs and circumstances - a little bit like retrovirologists I suppose.<br />
<br />
George is another unique leftover from a different epoch, as far distant as the dinosaurs it seems, though his quaint use of fashionable cyber-slang indicates he's not yet a fossil in the judgment of his thrice great grandchildren. <br />
Apropos 'my prophetic soul', he also brought out neatly the relevance of Hamlet to our current predicament in calling it a 'perfect example of this existential and sexual crossroads'. <br />
If we add to the mix of existential and sexual the media in which 'Hamlet' was conceived and performed, namely ambiguous language and raunchy theatre where boys customarily came dressed as girls, I think everybody will understand, that we've never really strayed far from the lyrics of your Team America song. </p>Celia Farber commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e5507771db88342006-09-06T12:58:59Z2008-02-22T08:51:46ZCelia FarberGeorge: I did not take umbrage. Last I checked this was a free Kleptocracy. I don't like the root word...<p>George: I did not take umbrage. Last I checked this was a free Kleptocracy. I don't like the root word "blog" or any conjugation of it. I do, however, like Denmark. I love Rasmussen. I think Hamlet is mostly mis-read as "ambivalent." (The influence of a certain beloved college professor who ACTED out the play as he taught it, and was clearly in love with H. Furious, he was, about all the incorrect raps he felt H. had been saddled with, chiefly the 'ambivalent' stuff.) <br />
</p>George commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550635d2488332006-09-06T07:22:13Z2008-02-22T08:52:25ZGeorgeMs. Farber, Blogospherical (or more correctly bllogospherical)is a most wonderfully decontextualizable, hyper-post-modern term . I am surprised you take even...<p>Ms. Farber,</p>
<p>Blogospherical (or more correctly bllogospherical)is a most wonderfully decontextualizable, hyper-post-modern term . I am surprised you take even the slightest umbrage (does that have an umlaut?) to its use in the otherwise lingustically challenged times in which we live.</p>
<p>The dilemma of Hamlet and Ophelia that the presumably tall Dane, Claus brought to your attention is a perfect example of this existential and sexual crossroads, and is worth as much attention as The Fugs ode to nothing that was recorded in the glorious year of 1965 when I studied the circular permutations of the T4 genome at CSH, and the internet was not even a gleam in Al's eye. </p>Claus commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550635bcf88332006-09-05T23:00:00Z2008-02-22T08:51:34ZClausHamlet? Perhaps not boring, although soon insufferable I'd have thought in his constant slander of life and the 'strumpet Fortune.'...<p>Hamlet? Perhaps not boring, although soon insufferable I'd have thought in his constant slander of life and the 'strumpet Fortune.' Nothing much for women to judge by poor Ophelia, intent as he was, even when resting in her lap, on exactly that: 'Nothing'</p>
<p>Hamlet<br />
Lady, shall I lie in your lap?</p>
<p>OPHELIA <br />
No, my lord.</p>
<p>HAMLET <br />
I mean, my head upon your lap?</p>
<p>OPHELIA <br />
Ay, my lord.</p>
<p>HAMLET <br />
Do you think I meant country matters?</p>
<p>OPHELIA <br />
I think nothing, my lord.</p>
<p>HAMLET <br />
That's a fair thought to lie between maids' legs.</p>
<p>OPHELIA <br />
What is, my lord?</p>
<p>HAMLET <br />
Nothing.</p>
<p><br />
I confess I was not entirely truthful regarding the umlauts. The last letter in our alphabet is written with a small circle above the A. To me it's less aesthetically pleasing than the contraction, 'ae'. 'Oe', which is written with a line through it like an arrow through a heart doesn't seem like an organic development either. But really, those little pin pricks used in Swedish, very peculiar. </p>Celia Farber commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550635b3e88332006-09-05T20:29:00Z2008-02-22T08:51:12ZCelia FarberMy dear George, I wish we had a less Plebeian word than 'blogospherical' but in the meantime, I too am...<p>My dear George, I wish we had a less Plebeian word than 'blogospherical' but in the meantime, I too am delighted to have met you there, (here.)</p>
<p>I wish (at my most shamelessly Circean) to capture you and Claus for service in the small but elite cricket symphony of my soon-to-be-born linguistic blog.</p>
<p>THERE we will play excruciatingly close attention to detail and connotation. </p>
<p>Now, Claus, I looked up "umlaut," and wish yet again to defend the Farber family honor by explaining why I said "umlaut" in reference to the last three Danish letters which I equated with the last three Swedish letters, though I know yours are these weird crammed together a's and e's etc and ours are nice reasonable "umlauts" (dots and circles)hanging over the a and o where they belong. </p>
<p>Umlaut, then, means a "dia-critical mark," and in Websters, they use the Swedish vowel of said beer (o, with two dots over) which sounds like an American burp, possibly, no other way to describe it...and it is also the opening vowel of my hometown "Orebro," which I am forced to pronounce as though it rhymed with the English "Ore," when in fact our magical umlaut opens it up into the sound that rhymes with...well I can't think of a thing, except a gasp of dead-rodent horror, as in "uhhh."</p>
<p>In school they made us learn all those Danish letters leaning in on each other unnaturally and I pretended to know them well. If we really want to get wild here we could start talking about my father's favorite topic which is "Ny Norsk." But I think we're having too much fun with the Sweden/Denmark showdown. </p>
<p>I refuse to accept that Danish men are boring. Was Hamlet boring?</p>
<p>Indeed, was Hamlet....Danish?</p>
<p>(wink wink)</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> <br />
</p>Claus commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550776c6388342006-09-04T22:20:46Z2008-02-22T08:49:19ZClaus PS, I can think of no better reason for learning a language than your father's ambition.<p>PS,</p>
<p>I can think of no better reason for learning a language than your father's ambition. </p>George commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e55077717288342006-09-04T22:20:05Z2008-02-22T08:51:36ZGeorgeClaus, If I was indeed a "young man" (or even a slightly younger one) I would take you up on...<p>Claus,</p>
<p>If I was indeed a "young man" (or even a slightly younger one) I would take you up on your offer in a millisec or less. And in fact am not unacquianted with the delights BKK has to offer.</p>
<p>There is *only* the undifferentiable (not undifferentiated) hypercontinuum (cf. my old friend David Bohm's excellent inquiries into its properties that he calls the "wholeness of the implicate order".) </p>
<p>So sad *he* ain't around today too, along with the mightiest of Maxs. Things we dare not speak of in scientific circles might be different if Delbruck had not passed when he did.</p>Claus commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550776b9f88342006-09-04T22:02:06Z2008-02-22T08:49:05ZClaus Ms. Farber I am in no wise offended, by your discretion in not correcting my 'Swedish', especially since I so...<p>Ms. Farber</p>
<p>I am in no wise offended, by your discretion in not correcting my 'Swedish', especially since I so boldly rated your English. But I must hasten to say, in order to save you from the thunder gathering I'm sure on your father's brow as I write, that there are no 'umlauts' in written Danish. My problems with foreign keyboards, as well as your ditto with recognizing the language, are due in their entirety to the omission of the last three letters uniquely found in the Danish alphabet. Those letters, I add for the edification of people like George, whose understanding of langauge is obviously limited to the universal genetic code, represent contractions of 'ae' 'oe' and 'aa'. </p>
<p>The reason why he was not able to order his usual plebeian beverage in the capital of the oldest still existing monarchy in the world is that the sound made by the 'oe' combination, and which makes up half the Danish word for 'ale' is well beyond his vocal range. <br />
Like any good American, therefore, he resorted to the mangled remnants of the English language spoken in the colonies, who at their own cultural peril severed their ties with the old world not so long ago - by our reckoning.</p>
<p>On the perfection of Danish men, Ms. Farber's Circean flattery will not turn this particular specimen into a pig, since in my experience it is easily reconciled with the profound observations made by the visiting George. The uneasy feelings of sexual inadequacy we inflict on superstitious strangers is merely the fear projecting on itself of being infected with the virus that gets Danish men voted the most boring in Europe - year after year. <br />
Ms. Farber I suspect knows this, as presumably she knows, that woman loves the child in man, or in terms of the real world outside the ideal realm of 'poesie': his weakness, her strength. </p>
<p>Which brings me to George's hopelessly romantic notions of languages in an undifferentiated hypercontinuum. <br />
Come to Bangkok, young man, and re-experience the chaos-gulf in which flows the semantic waters of the word 'love' on and on towards the black caves where your lantern will no longer show you up or down or the way back to the hypercontinuum of. . . man</p>
<p>The Danish prime minister, by the way, is very short, sort of in between George Bush and Ahmadinejad. <br />
</p>
<p> </p>Goerge commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550776b8288342006-09-04T19:42:14Z2008-02-22T08:49:03ZGoergeMs. Farber, I have just this moment realized, silly me, that this is the first time I have had the...<p>Ms. Farber,</p>
<p>I have just this moment realized, silly me, that this is the first time I have had the pleasure of making your blogospherical acquaintance, and the very first time you have ever addressed me directly, AND the first time since my own beautiful daughter said those very words concerning a certain lyrical quality she perceived me to possess so many, many years (if not aeons)ago, it seems.</p>
<p>I am knocked off my socks, as you say, by the compliment. </p>
<p>Gad, Zooks!</p>George commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e5506356f588332006-09-04T19:24:19Z2008-02-22T08:49:04ZGeorgeDignified? Danish? Hrummph, Ms. Farber. *I* was in Copenhagen once and damned if I could order a decent ale without...<p>Dignified? Danish? Hrummph, Ms. Farber. *I* was in Copenhagen once and damned if I could order a decent ale without getting a stinking eel. Furrners with their furren languages always make real Americans madder than hell.</p>
<p>And makes them afraid almost as much as their worst nightmares of sexual inadequacy that are so strangely and invertedly accepted by the very envy hate duality it is directed against and that engulfs their psyche along with all the other pathologies that go with their identity/preference complex and a society that as the earthly poet Ed Dorn put it, has "entrapment as it's sole activity."</p>Celia Farber commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e5507771f188342006-09-04T19:19:54Z2008-02-22T08:51:50ZCelia FarberI know we're supposed to be talking about AIDS, AIDS, AIDS as they called it in "Team America," but one...<p>I know we're supposed to be talking about AIDS, AIDS, AIDS as they called it in "Team America," but one last thing about Scandinavian Competition. In 1941, in the local bookstore in Greensboro, the same Norwegian book cost fifty cents less than the equivalent Swedish book, so my father had to buy the Norwegian one. He'd specified that he wanted a book to teach him whatever language Ingrid Bergman spoke. This being America back when it was sentient, the clerk knew Bergman's language was Swedish, but the boy (my father) was nonetheless fifty cents short, so off he went with the Norwegian book, learning his first of many languages... as a way to pick up women, biensur. </p>
<p>And why not? </p>
<p>It meant I got born, and without me, John Moore, Laurie Garret, Nathan Geffen and friends would have little or no way to measure depravity and badness in AIDS journalism. <br />
</p>Celia Farber commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e55077716b88342006-09-04T19:04:26Z2008-02-22T08:51:36ZCelia FarberMy father (who speaks over 20 languages)would disown me if he knew I had looked at Danish and called it...<p>My father (who speaks over 20 languages)would disown me if he knew I had looked at Danish and called it Swedish, to a Dane!</p>
<p>Heavens. I am sorry.</p>
<p>But may I explain Claus: My father learned Norwegian first (in North Carolina in the 1940s)and then married a Swede, (my mother, Ulla) and also speaks Danish, sort of. At times, when we're with friends and all having a bit too much fun, it all becomes a kind of fusion language, which I call Scandihoovian. Without fail, as the night wears on, the wine flows and song breaks out... my father's Swedish rises an octave and morphs into Norwegian, and we just sort of keep going. Just as it crosses over, it becomes inexplicably funny. Norwegian spoken at a high pitch by a 76 year old Southern American man is something apparently so unique and funny that Swedish TV has made a documentary about it. Were we not at war on all fronts of consciousness, we could have all kinds of fluffy fun talking about these life-affirming things. </p>
<p>But back to my defense... Danish...more so to the American ear than Norwegian OR Swedish, is of course unmistakable. It is dignified and sort of bitter. I want to say in parting that I am wild about Denmark, Danish people, the Danish Prime Minister (!!) and pretty much all Danish men, who are perfect as far as I can tell. </p>
<p>I didn't want to sound like a besservisser by saying "that's not the King's Swedish!" and didn't read it close enough (the first time)to realize that its quality meant it was written by a native speaker. Then there's the whole business of your umlauts and ours, and these hopeless keyboards missing so many letters...</p>
<p>Please forgive me and please don't take this laziness of mine as indication of other intellectual faults. </p>
<p>Now, back to our nightmare, made so much more bearable by the lyricism of writers such as Claus, George and others. </p>
<p>One of the worst things about AIDS when we're gotten past the corpses, is how shoddy the language is. That's always a sign of a malignant orthodoxy. (Orwell, all pages.)<br />
</p>George commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550776c4b88342006-09-04T15:47:41Z2008-02-22T08:49:18ZGeorgeI have no idea how many actual, different languages there are or have been on this strange planet I sometimes...<p>I have no idea how many actual, different languages there are or have been on this strange planet I sometimes think I inhabit, but the number is pretty big and the different languages pretty different often in syntax, grammar, etc. </p>
<p>And yet, we all suppose that whatever is said, in whatever language at whatever time and place, expresses exactly the same range of emotion and experience.</p>
<p>The genetic code may be a universal language of life, but human language is the best proof we have that everybody is either the same, or an undifferentiable part of the same hypercontinuum. </p>George commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e5506356c188332006-09-04T15:27:06Z2008-02-22T08:49:01ZGeorgeAnd "HIV is not the cause of AIDS" is NOT dangerous enough? I understand that that construct is in fact...<p>And "HIV is not the cause of AIDS" is NOT dangerous enough?</p>
<p>I understand that that construct is in fact the opposite of a *belief system*, and that *promoting* one (any one) is something I am certain neither of you would do -- in Danish, Finnish, Babylonian, Sanskrit, Ugaritic, Urdu, Yoruba, Ibibio, Thai (with its matriarchal, totally weird orthography) or any other language spoken by men and women, living or dead -- but still. </p>claus commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e5507772e288342006-09-04T14:33:16Z2008-02-22T08:52:31ZclausIt is Danish. Jeg er fra Koebenhavn, hvilket er grunden til, at jeg forstaar svensk, men brevet var skrevet paa...<p>It is Danish. Jeg er fra Koebenhavn, hvilket er grunden til, at jeg forstaar svensk, men brevet var skrevet paa dansk, hvilket jeg vidste du maatte kunne forstaa. Finnish is a beautiful language, but I think until we've got some really dangerous belief systems to discuss and secretly promote, we'd better keep it in English</p>George commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550635bd288332006-09-03T23:44:22Z2008-02-22T08:51:35ZGeorgeI thought that was Danish. Goes to show. Great idea Ms. Farber. Be sure to include a few untranslatable phrases...<p>I thought that was Danish. Goes to show. Great idea Ms. Farber.<br />
Be sure to include a few untranslatable phrases to keep em on their tippiest of toes, like "Minkey Doc.", "maricon HIV/AIDS Researcher", "AIDS, Inc.", "Der Fuhrer" etc. </p>Celia Farber commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e55077707488342006-09-03T19:38:34Z2008-02-22T08:50:56ZCelia FarberHere's a concept: How about of Claus and I conduct a wing of the HIV debate entirely in Swedish. This...<p>Here's a concept: How about of Claus and I conduct a wing of the HIV debate entirely in Swedish. This will take longer for John Moore and Nathan Geffen to decode and they will undoubtedly develop entirely new rafts of klepto-paranoia about who we are and what we "believe."</p>
<p>After that, we move on to Finnish...</p>Celia Farber commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550635ca988332006-09-03T19:35:38Z2008-02-22T08:52:04ZCelia FarberClaus, Tack sa valdigt for det fina brevet och uppmintringen. Hur kommer det sig att du talar Svenska? Jag beklagar...<p>Claus,</p>
<p>Tack sa valdigt for det fina brevet och uppmintringen. Hur kommer det sig att du talar Svenska?</p>
<p>Jag beklagar forresten att detta skrivs lite sent. </p>
<p>Ha det gott!</p>Claus commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550776bd988342006-09-02T02:57:12Z2008-02-22T08:49:09ZClaus Ms Farber, Jeg kan hoere din svenske accent til tider, men du er meget velformuleret. Jeg gentager uhoerligt (inaudibly) hvad...<p>Ms Farber, </p>
<p>Jeg kan hoere din svenske accent til tider, men du er meget velformuleret. Jeg gentager uhoerligt (inaudibly) hvad jeg skrev til dr. Bialy om dig og dr. Culshaw tidligere i dag... </p>
<p>Dine skrevne ord er fantastiske. Jeg tror bestemt det er en fordel at kunne se sproget (det engelske) udefra samtidig med at existere indeni det. </p>
<p> </p>Michael commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e55063577488332006-09-01T23:10:47Z2008-02-22T08:49:12ZMichaelCelia and Stephen did a fantastic job. Actually, Celia, you speak very well, and very clearly and understandably. It is...<p>Celia and Stephen did a fantastic job. Actually, Celia, you speak very well, and very clearly and understandably. It is unfortunate, that just as you would clarify an important point, the show would go to a commercial or Joey or Dr. Mark would bring out some point based on false logic. The show started a bit slow, as Joey likes to ramble, and Dr. Siegal and Joey put out their old beliefs about the virus = AIDS = Death, and there was a bit of hoorah from Dr. Mark for the viral tests, which he believed were so accurate and helpful, and a bit of hoorah for medications, but by the middle of the second half, and by the end, Dr. Mark Siegal and Joey Reynolds were fairly well pulled out of the Matrix and saw the light. It was great how Dr. Siegal himself brought out how bird flu is hyped by fear and falsity. Hopefully Celia and Stephen had a few minutes after the show to discuss a bit more with Dr. Siegal as well. I think he is connected to teaching medical students, so this bodes well for the future. </p>Celia Farber commented on 'Celia Farber and Stephen Davis on the Radio!'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451609269e200e550635c5688332006-09-01T18:25:07Z2008-02-22T08:51:48ZCelia FarberHi Dean! No it continues well past that point. The show was scheduled from 1-2 am. It ran to 3...<p>Hi Dean!</p>
<p>No it continues well past that point. The show was scheduled from 1-2 am. It ran to 3 am, and another guest was unfortunately bumped. Joey thought it was a very important subject and show. We were amazed. </p>
<p>I think the antagonism against this discussion aka debate is a thing of the past, a kind of Potemkin Village. Not quite real. </p>